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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
07-12-02 06:45
No 331698
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largescale
p2p
(Rated as: excellent)
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Large Scale p2p from Hydratropic Aldehyde:
0,5-5L p2p is obtainable from that method:
Pictures
will be posted after doing this a second time
Stuff:
5-10L Hydratropic aldehyde 1Lcosts around 40-50$
2x 20 L drumms H2SO4 (for cement cleaning or you have a large Batterie to
refill:) 20L drum is 18$ here
25L Toluol, Toluene around 27$
Strong power supply :-) costs me once 900$ but its worth buying it but can be
build by your own for around 80$
2 towerventilators with each 3 ventilators in it should cost about 25$ each
Electronic Thermometer with range to -30°C 20$ for houshold use with cable
for outside messuring of temperature
At Color market there are canister for 25L color mixing buy 2 ones with caps
to close one with 25L and one with 30L thei need to fit into eachother and
hav a little bit space left
a lot of Peltier elements (strong ones with 60 Watt)
Pasive cooler elements from electroshop
Some metal forming stuff and Aluminium staffs with ~20mm diameter
8 Plastic staffs and 8 Plasic Plates (5x10cm)
8 dremels
Nuts and bolts fitting to your Peltierelements
Some pillar (??), say them in the hardware store you want to have the
aluminiumstaffs stand on ground and they need to be stable.
Mass of cable
NaCL
Superglue (holds everything)
100L Canister with 25 Kg Crushed ice
So get started:
Cooler
Unit:
Scale it up as needed.
Take one of the Alu staffs and cut 8 x 5cm long sticks from it, be sure the
are cutted well and can stand alone at the cuted end's. Make some superglue
on the one site of the aluminium sticks and glue'em on the downside of the
25L, Now you should have a container on 8 Aluminium feet.
30L Paint canister (for sure empty) is drilled some wholes in and the
peltiers where put on the downside together with the passive cooler units to
the canister and on the right and left sides. let spaces of 5- 10 cm's
betwewn the peltiers. fix them with the nuts and bolts you bought
Now cut 6-8 x 50 cm long Aluminium staffs and attach them to the 30L vessel
on the downside with your nuts and bolts.
i used 24 staffs for my vessel
depends on size and how large batches you will run in it attach the
pillars(??).
to the aluminium staffs. Now you have a 30L on feet standing canister, fine
:).
atach the cables to your powersupply and dont switch on.
The cap of the 25L where taken and 9 wholes where made into it. 8 wholes in
the size of fitting the Plastik staffs and one for the filling into.
the 8 should have the same space between each other.
The dremels where attached to the plastik staffs and at the other end slots
where made for the plastic plates. (now whe have an 8 overhead stirrer
system.) the staffs where stuck into the wholes of the cap. the plastic
plates where attached to their staffs
Procedure:
so now take the stuff we have + the chems and remaining stuff and go to a
LARGE/Cool room the cooler and larger the better it is.
Look if any wholes could let any water out of the 30L container if you have
some, glue'em. there may not come out any water. fill the 30L with 3L of
water and Mix NaCL in it until no more dissolves. Glue the thermometer in the
middle of 25L vessel and let the display unit stand outside. Take the 25L
feetvessel and let it stand on its feet in the NaCl + water.fill 5L Hydratropic
aldehyde into that Vessel And switch on power supply wait and watch how the
water / NaCL will get a bit colder, the passive cooler will get warm so
switch on your ventilation towers and let fresh air flow throu the passive
cooler. the water in the should reach nearly the top of the 25L vessel. if
not add more saturated Water + NaCL.
Take 19L 85% H2SO4 and add it slowly under
now the temperature should go to -18°C (my expirience) if the NaCL water
crystalyses you should have goten -21,3°C or less then take less power :). if
you arrived at -18°C you are fine -20°C is also good. put your Overhead
stirrer cap on and seal it. now put the stirring on, and slowly add the H2SO4
should take about 8hours of adding. think about how to do that (took me hours
of finding an adequat method to exchange a addition funnel with something
that large :-) i never would to that manualy.
after addition let it stand on stirring for 3 hours. then take of the cap and
take the 25 l vessen and pour everything into the 100L ice bucket. :) fine
fine now wait until ice has molten. then add 10L Toluol seal that large
vessel and try to shake it with 2 perons or kick it around or do anything to
mix the layers. Then siphon of or take an adequat seperator and seperate
tolly. repeat wit again 5 L Tolly and then again with 9 L.
Vakuum destill the tolly then the loved stuff now you have not higy purity
P2P i think but its ok for Al/Hg/Nitro.
my yeild was 53,987% of that method wit 4L Hydratropic aldehyde.
any comments helps to make it better any ideas ??
POST END !! pics come when it will be done again. drawings will come on
monday or tuesday.
Chemistry
are not only the things that stink. :)
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OB1KNoBee
(Newbee)
07-12-02 16:59
No 331879
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Chill
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Regular home freezers don't get cold enough? Is that why you make a homeade
freezing chamber?
Thanks for researching on this...it's quite promising ,if you are on the ball
that is....and it sounds like you are.
What does the P2P smell like, and what does hydratropic alsehyde smell like
compared to P2P?
GOOD
GOOD
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ChambeRed
(Newbee)
07-13-02 10:47
No 332107
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Awsome
bro,bring on the pictures
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Fuckin awsome bro this is the shit Swic likes to see,new work,new options for
us,less options for them.Now bring on them pictures bra! .
Bee's
don't die,we just multiply
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
07-15-02 02:26
No 332770
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I
made my own cooling chamber cause you need to ...
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I made my own cooling chamber cause you need to stay at ~-20°C with a
potentiometer driven powersupply you can make more or less cooling if needed
if not you will polymerize your stuff and its not funny to scrape out the
shit. its like rubbergum and smells like hell (everyone that ever smelled p2p
will recognize you after that cleaning batch). i took me 5 runs of cleaning
myself after cleaning a failed atemp in my modifyed freezer.
As i cant get / wont pay a fast temperature changing freezer i assembled my
own.
for the smell look at my other Hydratropic aldehyde -> P2P method Post No 319139
Hydratropic Aldehyde:
http://www.execpc.com/~goodscnt/data/rw1006391.html
It burns if it came intouch of skin or if it is put into mouth. (swims
expirience)
Odor Description : Fresh Sharp Green Hyacinth Leaf Lilac
P2P:
http://www.speclab.com/compound/c103797.htm
the stuff that was made had a Pleasant Fragrance.
Chemistry
are not only the things that stink. :)
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
07-15-02 04:24
No 332791
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Cooling
chamber
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The Cooling vessel (drawing)
As replacement for the seperatory/addition funnel, you dont need to hold the
stuff in your hand all the 8 hours go to wine making factory they have tanks
with stopcocks or get a large tank and drill a hole in and in that hole fit a
hose and add a clamp to the hose. open the clamp as wide as needed. so you
have a homemade cooling chamber and seperatory (addition funnel)
Last step dont close the box and kick around to get the layers mixed, just
take a second painting box and do in there and set the cap with dremels on it
and stirr on maximum :))
I hope i could clear some thing up with the pictures.
comments and additions wanted :)
Chemistry
are not only the things that stink. :)
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BieneMaja
(Hive Bee)
07-15-02 13:56
No 332953
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sometimes
a pic...
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...sais more than thousand words. McGyver would be proud ;)
swib'll give it a try asap, but first need to run some small batches to
get a feeling for the rxn. i can't think of any useful changes atm. maybe a
little circuit w/ a temp. input to trigger the peltierelements, an aluminum
tub as outer canister and some heatleading paste, just to improve tempxchange
between rxn mixture and peltierelements. swib also would replace the dremels
through a 'stirring solution' which is a little cheaper.. or already at home
good work
kallos
kai agathos
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dwarfer
(Hive Addict)
07-15-02 16:10
No 332994
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very
impressive
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Kudos!
dwarfer
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
07-15-02 22:27
No 333139
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i
tryed to use only Plastik canisters cause i ...
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i tryed to use only Plastik canisters cause i tryed one steel drumm for
cooling verssel and while adding H2SO4 only a little bit got into the water
NaCL bath .... think about what happened......
Heatleading paste .... good idea will be tested soon :)
BM: dremels ar cheapest i can find here, buy a bulk of 10 from your favorite
baumarkt (OBI) and you only need to pay around 200-300€
Chemistry
are not only the things that stink. :)
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BieneMaja
(Hive Bee)
07-16-02 05:50
No 333249
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maybe
not Al
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kay, aluminum is maybe too sensitive against H2SO4, but using stainless steel
and a few hundred gramms of baking soda added to the waterbath to work as a
buffer should work, shouldn't it?
swib thought of using one big stirrer and maybe glue in some plastic stripes
to act act as 'riffs'(can't find the right word). swib'll test the stirring
first of course, as i see it, the better the stirring/mixing the faster the
heat is lead away the higher should be the yield. makes no sense to be
parsimonious with the result that yields become lower.
kallos
kai agathos
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
07-16-02 05:59
No 333250
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Yea
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Sounds good, as soon as anyone wants to try to assemble such a unit i would
be glad to hear a succsess story
Chemistry
are not only the things that stink. :)
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-16-02 12:13
No 333322
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Jan:
Do you have any digital photos to share?
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Jan: Do you have any digital photos to share?
How many 40W Peltier elements are needed per 10L of coolant, and how long
does it take for them to cool the mixture from room temp to -20°C?
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
07-16-02 22:48
No 333505
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not
right now
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I don't have photographed it already, i have a roommate, and we tested it at
his house. i will go to visit him in the beginning of August
for 25L we used ... lemme think ... 10 * on the bottom and around it ... 12
... not sure but as far as i remember it was that.
But as we didn't used the passive cooling elements it used to take about 4
hours too cool, without ventilation.
With small passive coolers, took 2 hours to get the Water + NaCL nearly
crystalizing and with the large passive coolers the vessel looked like a
hedgehog (32 cm long spikes) on the back but it cooled down in 36 minutes to
nearly total crystalising (under ventilation)
Next we will try CPU coolers on the passive elements :-)
Anyone tryed building a cooling unit with kryotech CPU cooling system ?? :-)
ok, was a joke but the only shit in that system is the heavy load on the
powersupply.
My Lab Power supply will do but dunno about building a suitable (should be
cheaper).
Chemistry
are not only the things that stink. :)
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